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Post by rydon7 on Aug 6, 2008 7:31:31 GMT -5
Wait, you have Warcraft III? Do you play online?
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Post by Yoshimaster on Aug 6, 2008 8:09:46 GMT -5
In response to Magic=Tech Merloo look at your blast of 200 day s of magic. Only time a war machine did that was when the BXN kamakazied and that destroyed it.
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Merloo
SMKW God of the Wars
Posts: 5,486
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Post by Merloo on Aug 6, 2008 8:26:49 GMT -5
I've played it, although my friends are in the process of setting up all of us with online play.
And that attack really didn't do that much. Unless I remember it wrongly.
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Post by Yoshimaster on Aug 6, 2008 8:40:50 GMT -5
No it did a good bit of damage. Well, it would of if it hadn't been so terribly used. You used 200 days of work to kill one captain and a half dozen troops.
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Merloo
SMKW God of the Wars
Posts: 5,486
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Post by Merloo on Aug 6, 2008 9:26:04 GMT -5
So, basically, it didn't do much. Especially seeing as how, at the time, you weren't that powerful to begin with.
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Post by Yoshimaster on Aug 6, 2008 9:46:18 GMT -5
Yes but it would of if we had been in say the dungion it would of done damage.
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Merloo
SMKW God of the Wars
Posts: 5,486
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Post by Merloo on Aug 6, 2008 9:57:03 GMT -5
Well of course. Anything worth some days will do damage somewhere. I'm pretty sure an UWM would have done damage in a dungeon to.
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Post by vidguysteve on Aug 6, 2008 13:14:20 GMT -5
So, what I've gathered from this topic can be summarized in the following sentence:
Water Dumple doesn't like Heroes, Magic, and non-Armies and everyone else seems pretty cool with them.
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Merloo
SMKW God of the Wars
Posts: 5,486
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Post by Merloo on Aug 6, 2008 13:23:40 GMT -5
Sounds spot on. His only problems with said groups is how powerful they are compared to how powerful he thinks they should be, which is all tied into how people view them, which means the entire point of this is that short of removing the things he dislikes, he won't be happy with a majority of the battles written, unless he can change peoples opinions.
Also, a good comparison to these wars, as I see it, is Star Wars. Or at least the Clone Wars one. You have your basic troops, with a variety of specializations, your machines, and your heroes, the Jedi/Sith, and anyone else that manages to become really powerful, like Grievous. It also really fits how I feel these wars are in practice. Troops get little notice, but they do get to do some impressive things when given the chance, and even Generals/Captains are useful outside of directions. Machines are useful for transportation, and hitting the hard to reach places, and Jedi/Sith are dangerous foes, and not able to be easily matched short of surprise attacks, mass numbers, or another foe of equal strength.
The only thing lacking is Artifacts. And WD, if you want to weaken Artifacts, use my idea. It makes them still useful, but not constantly useful.
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Water Dumple
SMKW God of the Wars
Expert Debater
Whatever do you mean, Commander Pierce?! Anglo military intelligence is second to none! Fire!
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Post by Water Dumple on Aug 6, 2008 13:25:42 GMT -5
Merloo: I've argued with almost everyone on this forum that's willing, and only my arguments with you end up going nowhere, so I'm done on this. That, and I'm feeling a good deal worse today than yesterday and don't really care to write up several more paragraphs. I could, but it wouldn't be worth it.
Vidguysteve: How very shallow--I might even say immature. The fact that I have a different viewpoint than yours and you dislike that--I can't see any other reason to say something like that--Is not a valid reason to basically say, "You're wrong, the end." Unless there was some strange implication from your post that I'm really not seeing, that was generally all that came out of it. Additionally, not only do you fail to provide any reason why you will not reply to my previous post to you, but you also fail to understand what I'm trying to get through. I really expected better of you.
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Post by vidguysteve on Aug 6, 2008 13:30:31 GMT -5
I'm just making an observation/summary for people who may be coming in late and don't feel like reading through the paragraph equivalent of the Great Wall of China.
Can't a guy make a short post without having a string of insults and condecending words thrown at him?
And as to why I'm not responding to your previous post, the reason is the same that this is most likely going to be my last post on the topic: I really don't feel like arguing over long-lasting traditions of a game with someone who isn't even playing anymore.
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Water Dumple
SMKW God of the Wars
Expert Debater
Whatever do you mean, Commander Pierce?! Anglo military intelligence is second to none! Fire!
Posts: 4,123
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Post by Water Dumple on Aug 6, 2008 13:40:43 GMT -5
Once again, the point that I'm not playing any more is brought up and still holds no value. Could a general who has retired from the military not have any say in its direction or advice for its future? Does one have to actively participate in something to guide it? The reason I'm so caustic over that post is because it's random, uncalled-for, and incomplete.
As to your "Traditions" remark: Why must traditions continue to be there? Why must we follow them? If something is better (Not trying to imply that what I'm saying is objectively better, I'm just making an example) should we still use the old system because it's traditional? However, that said, I would point out that they weren't really "Traditions," either, because if you look back to the first version, almost everybody always credits it because it was mainly just troops on troops and that sort of thing. Some say that it was uber projects and focus on heroes that forced us to make a new version and head in this direction. As for artifacts, there were things like the Star Rod, but it was generally just army might.
Eh, I guess while I'm writing this I'll just defend myself from one other point, and then I'm probably done: I am not against heroes. However, I am against the unpredictability of them and how difficult it is to destroy them. It's always a gamble with them, and more certainty and whatnot would be nice. Perhaps members should have to make descriptions more clear on them. If we used more objective terms, and fewer subjective things like, "Heavily damages a lot of troops," it would help remove the relativity of it, and make it less of a worry to have one moderator interpret a description one way, and another mod a different way.
Edit: And it's because the other classes are based on heroes, which are too unpredictable as I said above, that I think they should be changed or removed.
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Merloo
SMKW God of the Wars
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Post by Merloo on Aug 6, 2008 13:41:36 GMT -5
I only argue with you so much because you threaten to limit creativity just for the sake of balance. I'd rather have far more creative things than a more balanced game, even if it meant that magic actually had a mechanical limitation. Bandits, Heroes, Artifacts, all these things help with creativity, and to help broaden the game beyond it's prior narrow focus. When these wars started, I was the only one who actually tried a pure magic army, and I am still the only one that does pure anything beyond technology, even if each pure thing is closed off in a Shaman in this case. There is no real overpowering of magic, or anything else. How many wars did I win as the Star Spirits? I'd say none on my own, minus the weird stealth mission Geno did. If pure magic, or psionics in that case, but both are mechanically similar enough, I'd figure, couldn't win easily, or even often, why would diluted amounts fare better? Your problem is with Artifacts, not magic, so leave it out of this.
And this argument does go somewhere. Just not the place you want it to go.
Plus, having mods be able to interpret things differently helps to make these battles more interesting, not less. It helps to make things less set in stone, and it helps to make it so that no one will eventually try and make the most mechanically exact army possible, which I guarantee will happen if things are more definite.
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Post by Yoshimaster on Aug 6, 2008 14:54:15 GMT -5
Actually I see it diffirently vidguy. You and merloo are the only ones who disagree so strongly that they feel like arguing. How many hero on hero duels were there in the origanal wars in non RE fights? In my memory, 0. Now battles are hero fests. How much are real battles focused on superpowerful warriors? Not at all, troops and machines dominate the field. Your solution is to go to war. But war is no fun when all that happens is: Hero kills everthing. Other hero finds them. Heros fight. Battles end. The battles are epic, but not exiting. On the other hand, in pikmin wars where troops and machines are the main focus, battles keep you on the edge of you seat. YOu see randoom things like lava getting fed cookies doesn't make the game fun. The frostbite battle was perfect. Not to much hero focus and not to much troop focus.
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Merloo
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Post by Merloo on Aug 6, 2008 15:09:56 GMT -5
Think of my comparison, as it is the best example of the way our wars should work, minus the obviously different universe. Heroes, Troops, and WM's, all covered by it.
Also, you and WD are the only ones that care enough about your side to argue this long, so I say we're even.
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