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Post by IDNAU on Aug 4, 2008 15:54:22 GMT -5
But a 100 day Crystal star would not beat an uber war machine.
Edit- @ Hachi
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Water Dumple
SMKW God of the Wars
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Post by Water Dumple on Aug 4, 2008 16:00:25 GMT -5
I honestly haven't seen that happen. I don't even think there are any magic based armies here. EDIT: That was to WD, not you Chaos. Merloo?
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Water Dumple
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Post by Water Dumple on Aug 4, 2008 16:00:49 GMT -5
But a 100 day Crystal star would not beat an uber war machine. Edit- @ Hachi And yet there's no limit to the number of 100-day crystal stars you can have. Armies only get one uber machine.
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kaka
SMKW Rolemodel
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Post by kaka on Aug 4, 2008 16:02:24 GMT -5
I honestly haven't seen that happen. I don't even think there are any magic based armies here. EDIT: That was to WD, not you Chaos. Merloo? That's one army and it's not even active. I would say that it's not a problem.
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Post by Chaosblade on Aug 4, 2008 16:08:35 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure Merloos active.
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Post by soulofhachi on Aug 4, 2008 16:14:16 GMT -5
Yup, Merloo is quite active. He is even going to war soon.
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Post by Yoshimaster on Aug 4, 2008 17:06:59 GMT -5
Evidence for hero problem: In my battle against vidguy last wars, I outnumbered him by more than 50,000 troops, 5-6 war machines and a huge airship. But yet his heros slaughtered anything that went their way.
Also when idunu attacked vidguy, peasly flys in, everthing dies.
Bandits and mercs shoud stay but you know what. Kill them more. We've never had an army get totaly wiped out cause our mods are to nice. Quote from Petey on the booster battle (Not exact but close.)
"I don't want to make anyone's hero die."
We can just restart if we lose and keep fighting. Kaka did when I killed him on pikmin wars.
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Makajawan
SMKW God of the Wars
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Post by Makajawan on Aug 4, 2008 17:31:52 GMT -5
I think vidguy's right. We need to go to war. But I refuse to do so with indestructible Bandits and Mercs running around. I was in plenty of battles last Wars, but they weren't enjoyable because I was a merc, and it wasn't enjoyable to anyone else because I was a merc. We need to take those classes out to save the game. Then we can go to war, and then we can have fun.
Honestly, I'd find it much more enjoyable to go to war with a big army than a small group of characters any day.
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Post by rydon7 on Aug 4, 2008 17:42:32 GMT -5
I just I picked a Merc because I wanted an elite fighting force of a few groups of troops. That's why Koopley is so under-upgraded compared to Fawful.
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Water Dumple
SMKW God of the Wars
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Whatever do you mean, Commander Pierce?! Anglo military intelligence is second to none! Fire!
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Post by Water Dumple on Aug 4, 2008 17:50:56 GMT -5
Here's another example I brought up in my previous topic. Or should I say, examples. Here's my post:
"Here's some stuff I read in the latest Black Hole battle that generally embodies what I'm talking about.
All the troops backed slowly away from the monster that slowly oozed its way towards them. The gigantic gelatinous monster had come out of nowhere and appeared right in front of the Mecha-Sonics and Lawn Gnomes, digesting them.
Knuckles began to sweat as the soldiers all cocked and aimed their guns at the still-oblivious Irken and helpless echidna. Knuckles had just about given up all hope when a thick darkness covered the area. ‘What the… Did it get darker all of a sudden?’ Knuckles decided to take the opportunity and threw Zim into the air, and quickly began to slam the ground, his fists aflame, causing a Fire Quake and quickly incinerating all of the attacking troops.
The guard’s life was cut short by his trachea being crushed by Silver’s telekinetic abilities, before Sonic did a Spin Dash into the other one, cutting him in half.
“SONIC WIND!” The heroic hedgehog cried as a large blue ball of swirling energy appeared over a few troops, ripping them apart. Silver used his telekinetic abilities and tossed troops into the ball to be ripped apart by the ferocious winds.
“Time to improvise…” Knuckles mumbled as he grabbed Zim and crumpled him up into a ball, before throwing the screaming Irken at top speeds at a crowd of troops, sending them flying into the air.
The troop felt a tap on his shoulder and looked up to see a horrific-looking demon-jester. “Goodbye, loser,” was the last words he ever heard. In no time flat, the squadron had been thoroughly crushed.
...And I only looked at a few updates to get that. I probably missed some in said updates, as well."
I would also note the inconsistency here. In the second example, a hero is cornered by several troops with guns. In other battles, heroes just bolt around, getting hit by loads of bullets and explosions, right in the midst of of battle, doing loads of destruction with no fear or anything to challenge them. At other times, all it takes is several guns to stop them. Most of the time, a hero has to have that gun (Because a weapon is suddenly near-useless on a hero when a troop is holding it for God-knows-why). So, overall, heroes are just these unpredictable masses of power that can do absolutely anything--You just don't know for sure if it'll actually work, because most of the time it will and yet sometimes you'll wind up with a random situation like, "Knuckles began to sweat as the soldiers all cocked and aimed their guns at the still-oblivious Irken and helpless echidna". I'm not trying to pick on that battle specifically, I'm just using what happened as an example. I think heroes are...just too vague and unpredictable, if you want my opinion.
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Post by Yoshimaster on Aug 4, 2008 21:10:07 GMT -5
Here is another exaple of heros pwning.
The heroes had just made it out of the dungeon, and faced Jr troopa now, killing his force that he didn’t leave in the dungeon.
Look at my battle with bulbmin. No heros, epic duel of troops, machines, explosions, stupidity, and cheese.
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Merloo
SMKW God of the Wars
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Post by Merloo on Aug 4, 2008 21:39:03 GMT -5
Blood sugar is low, so for now I'll say I am active, but quiet, with massive ideas, and in agreement with vidguy.
We lack any real drive, and we have too many rules that limit in no positive way. Getting rid of Bandits or Mercs will do nothing to help.
I see magic being cut down more so than technology, and Artifacts can be tech-based too, while WM can be magic-based. If you don't believe me, give me some time, and I think Wizeman will convince you otherwise. I don't know of any magic projects, to be honest, aside from Artifacts and Heroes, that are in action, and Artifacts being stronger than WM's makes sense, as Artifacts are one shot per battle.
A little more than I meant, but still, more to come.
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Water Dumple
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Post by Water Dumple on Aug 4, 2008 22:12:26 GMT -5
Artifacts aren't always one-shot; they could be permanent troop buffers and such. Also, heroes remain to be overpowered. Fact is, it takes 40 internal days to get a hero if you do a quest, and yet it takes far more than 40 days of machines to kill it.
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Post by Chaosblade on Aug 4, 2008 23:13:56 GMT -5
Here is another exaple of heros pwning. The heroes had just made it out of the dungeon, and faced Jr troopa now, killing his force that he didn’t leave in the dungeon.Look at my battle with bulbmin. No heros, epic duel of troops, machines, explosions, stupidity, and cheese. You seem to forget the part where right before that, they activate like 10 50 day projects at once, so thats not the best example.
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Merloo
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Post by Merloo on Aug 5, 2008 2:59:18 GMT -5
But it's still one thing. One trick pony, and it's why they are so powerful. WM's have multiple powers, or at least multiple uses. As well, one Artifact > one WM focus, because there is only one of that Artifact, while most WM's have multiples. It's easier to write. You yourself talk about how you wanted to make writers jobs easier by cutting things in fourth, yet you can't tell how much easier it is to make a paragraph about one really unique thing compared to one of a group?
And I believe it's a 10 day quest for a Hero. And that is then a flaw with Quests, not Heroes. Heroes are not more powerful than they should be. Heroes also help to break up the monotony that would ensue if we just had troops and war machines. Artifacts and UWM's help with this as well. They can be strategy, but only if people let them be. And trying to force your idea of strategy onto people is rude, as that would be what you're doing by cutting Bandits and Mercs. It also forces your idea of fun as well. I personally find Bandits a lot more fulfilling for me, as I enjoy small groups of powerful people, who are able to win usually by outwitting. Geno meets X-Nauts is an example of what I'm talking about.
All the flaws you have listed are only tied to how battles are written, not any problems with the rules themselves, aside from possibly Quests. Heroes are only as powerful as you believe them to be, the same goes for everything, in accordance to the writer. That is the random factor in all battles that can't be removed, and thus is your true problem.
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