Makajawan
SMKW God of the Wars
The Fourth Forgoer
He's a Pirate
Posts: 5,285
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Post by Makajawan on Aug 4, 2008 13:33:50 GMT -5
In response to the Goomba Wars topic on IGNORE ME!, some of the people there who are members here started discussing the game of SMKW, and found that it's not what it once was. Here's the link: waterdumple.proboards74.com/index.cgi?board=couch&action=display&thread=1552&page=1It starts with my post, number 4, containing the Ice Bat avatar. I suggest we go back to the original ruleset of the first game, if anyone can find it. I think that might save it. Yeah, those of you guys with alternate classes probably don't want to, but let's face it, the first wars were the best, so we did something wrong along the way. I say we go back to it, and treat the latter versions as one of the ways not to make a Mario War Game.
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Water Dumple
SMKW God of the Wars
Expert Debater
Whatever do you mean, Commander Pierce?! Anglo military intelligence is second to none! Fire!
Posts: 4,123
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Post by Water Dumple on Aug 4, 2008 13:39:53 GMT -5
I agree...I think that bandits and mercenaries ought to be pasted. However, I do think that individual base defenses, the fifth project slot, and fewer troops should stay (I provided a lot of reasons for their being there, but what with heroes being overpowered, it was hard to see the effects).
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Makajawan
SMKW God of the Wars
The Fourth Forgoer
He's a Pirate
Posts: 5,285
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Post by Makajawan on Aug 4, 2008 13:47:37 GMT -5
Those can stay- none should affect the feel of the game at all.
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Post by Chaosblade on Aug 4, 2008 14:31:00 GMT -5
While I love Mercs and bandits, I see the logic of getting rid of them.
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Post by rydon7 on Aug 4, 2008 14:35:46 GMT -5
I vote tot get rid of them. But are voting to get rid of them or heroes altogether? I'd prefer we get rid of them all together, and maybe just let people upgrade generals and captains.
SMKW has really shifted from a strategy game to a Role-Playing game.
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Water Dumple
SMKW God of the Wars
Expert Debater
Whatever do you mean, Commander Pierce?! Anglo military intelligence is second to none! Fire!
Posts: 4,123
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Post by Water Dumple on Aug 4, 2008 14:36:43 GMT -5
Great, I think we've finally discovered the center of our problem, if there is one.
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Post by Chaosblade on Aug 4, 2008 15:07:58 GMT -5
I could support upgrading general, in the end they lead the army, but they were almost useless in battle when we had heroes.
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Post by vidguysteve on Aug 4, 2008 15:18:57 GMT -5
I don't think that it's changes in the game that has caused the game to lose its luster; I think that it's us.
Let's face it, we've been doing this for over a year now. It's inevitable that we start reusing/running out of ideas or get tired with the same old thing.
If you ask me, it's all of these new classes and changes that are keeping the game afloat.
However, rather than just dropping the game entirely or leaving, I propose that we do something so simple and obvious, I'm surprised that so few people do it: Go to war.
It's sad but true; a dissapointingly low number of people are ever willing to instigate a battle. Most people just sit in their bases and stockpile and never do anything offensive with their Armies. Go out and attack someone! Not just for prizes, but for the hell of it! For fun! I think that all of us can agree that some of our favorite moments from the game come from our Armies doing battle!
So get out of your space station or your castle or your treehouse and shoot someone! Trust me, the only reason I'm not sick of this game is because I'm always going out to attack for the hell of it!
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Water Dumple
SMKW God of the Wars
Expert Debater
Whatever do you mean, Commander Pierce?! Anglo military intelligence is second to none! Fire!
Posts: 4,123
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Post by Water Dumple on Aug 4, 2008 15:27:48 GMT -5
I don't think that it's changes in the game that has caused the game to lose its luster; I think that it's us. Let's face it, we've been doing this for over a year now. It's inevitable that we start reusing/running out of ideas or get tired with the same old thing. If you ask me, it's all of these new classes and changes that are keeping the game afloat. However, rather than just dropping the game entirely or leaving, I propose that we do something so simple and obvious, I'm surprised that so few people do it: Go to war. It's sad but true; a dissapointingly low number of people are ever willing to instigate a battle. Most people just sit in their bases and stockpile and never do anything offensive with their Armies. Go out and attack someone! Not just for prizes, but for the hell of it! For fun! I think that all of us can agree that some of our favorite moments from the game come from our Armies doing battle! So get out of your space station or your castle or your treehouse and shoot someone! Trust me, the only reason I'm not sick of this game is because I'm always going out to attack for the hell of it! I've only been interested by battles maybe once before. Usually I'll make positive comments just to sound nice or whatever, but frequently it just doesn't have much interest. And the reason a bunch of us don't go to war (At least, the reason I don't--Could be the same with others) is because of this disgusting magic > technology unbalance, and the fact that heroes are overpowered and troops are underpowered. (I mentioned this earlier right here.) I also spoke up about some of it in my quitting topic. So, about the magic beats tech thing--Perhaps a mod will make it more balanced or something in a battle. ...If you're lucky. Most of the time, that doesn't happen. For some reason, a 20-day project to get a magic attack will beat a 20-day war machine just about every time. It's insane. And then when folks like Hachi and I tried to counter that by mass-producing machines, a limit was set on factories and that kind of thing. So the reason I don't go to war--Maybe the same reason others don't--Is because I can only attack a tech-based army. Bulbmin and I were going to attack Bowser's Flamin' Fiends, I'll admit, but I saw almost no other targets to hit. As for elaboration on heroes being overpowered, I'll just repost my complaints right here. Alright, basically, most of what I see around the place in battles is...troops being stupid. Sucking. Dying in massive swarms because they're too incompetent to do anything competent. The way it seems to work is, troops are only good in a few fighting situations. 1) On other troops. Here, it generally comes out in a numbers game, where 100 troops will beat 80. 2) A massive number of troops clustering around a central target, trying to rip it apart, in some kind of strange hive-mind.
Well, I once heard about a man in, I think, World War II who killed an enemy tank's drivers, hijacked it, and saved a bunch of other soldiers who would have been killed by it. He was given the Medal of Honor. So--Why can't our troops do things like that? Why do they always have to suck and be little pawns you just throw clusters of at whatever you want dead? Sure, they're so stupid that you'll lose a bunch, but you might be able to win if you sacrifice enough. It's like each one had no training, they were just given weapons and told "Fight."
So what causes this? For the most part, Heroes. I know that in Deluxe or maybe crappy version 2 we decided that Heroes were worth about 10,000 troops. In SMKW 64 DS, that'll come out to 2,500. The problem: It hardly ever seems to work that way. It's always the same in a Hero invasion; Hero shows up. Troops appear to stop it. Hero uses some super big evil scary attack of doom and kills them all. "...But then he just did a Shockwave Blade and destroy edthem all. He moved on, stabbed the guards before they could resist, and..." Then the Hero will just go on and slaughter more and more troops until it either gets blown apart by a 22,000-ton battleship in a nearby lake or meets another Hero.
Oh, and I've never seen the battleship one (aka uber war machine) happen, so the way it seems to work is, you need a Hero to kill a Hero. The only time I can remember it going much differently would be in the Invasion of Peach's Castle IV when about 200 of my Kooper Troopers held down a hero with their grenades. But, most of the rest of the time, the Hero just marches in and does whatever he wants...usually it takes a bunch of artifacts, another Hero, or somesuch to deal with one. It's like a friggin' Anti-Tank in Advance Wars: Days of Ruin. I swear, those things need a crack team of ace WWII intelligence generals to take out. And when you do finally kill a Hero, the owner will just do some project to revive him! Pretty annoying, considering that one class is based on Heroes and another one is headed by a Super Hero (I'm not even going to start on that one).
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kaka
SMKW Rolemodel
Posts: 1,791
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Post by kaka on Aug 4, 2008 15:39:13 GMT -5
Well, I actually thought the problem was War Machines. In the first version, almost no one had War Machines, it was just plain, fun, troop on troop battles. Maby an airship or two carrying the troops around. I had 50,000 troops in my army, and had 4 War Machines.
No, I'm not saying take away War Machines altogether. Maybe make them somehow harder to get.
Now before you say, "But we already did! We lowered the amount of factories!" We didn't even have factories in the first version.
I just know know no ones going to back me up on this...
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Water Dumple
SMKW God of the Wars
Expert Debater
Whatever do you mean, Commander Pierce?! Anglo military intelligence is second to none! Fire!
Posts: 4,123
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Post by Water Dumple on Aug 4, 2008 15:40:20 GMT -5
Well, I actually thought the problem was War Machines. In the first version, almost no one had War Machines, it was just plain, fun, troop on troop battles. Maby an airship or two carrying the troops around. I had 50,000 troops in my army, and had 4 War Machines. No, I'm not saying take away War Machines altogether. Maybe make them somehow harder to get. Now before you say, "But we already did! We lowered the amount of factories!" We didn't even have factories in the first version. I just know know no ones going to back me up on this... I certainly won't back you up. Magic already beats war machines nine times out of ten, and you want to make machines harder to get? Good grief.
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Post by Chaosblade on Aug 4, 2008 15:42:13 GMT -5
Now before you say, "But we already did! We lowered the amount of factories!" We didn't even have factories in the first version. We definatly did have factorys in the first wars, just not to the extent that we do now.
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kaka
SMKW Rolemodel
Posts: 1,791
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Post by kaka on Aug 4, 2008 15:43:06 GMT -5
I honestly haven't seen that happen. I don't even think there are any magic based armies here.
EDIT: That was to WD, not you Chaos.
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Post by soulofhachi on Aug 4, 2008 15:48:36 GMT -5
Magical artifacts beats machines. A 25 day Crystal Star might take out a few thousand troops. Can a machine do the same?
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kaka
SMKW Rolemodel
Posts: 1,791
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Post by kaka on Aug 4, 2008 15:50:33 GMT -5
Well, I also thought that was unfair, but I don't think it would make the game like it was even if we stopped artifacts. We have to do more than that.
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