Makajawan
SMKW God of the Wars
The Fourth Forgoer
He's a Pirate
Posts: 5,285
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Post by Makajawan on Jun 22, 2008 22:08:15 GMT -5
You're basing the argument on false evidence. You claim that "Officers never fight."
Wrong. Final Battle: The Iron Club vs. Ancient Ones was 90% officer combat, and I don't just mean heroes. Big Poppa, Game Over, Chompy, Moustafa.. all fighting in the front lines.
Kidnapping of Orange Yoshi and Raphette- Every Officer of layze's was out there on the Front lines at some point.
Destrction of Beanbean Castle- Again, officers doing most of the fighting on layze's side.
I'd find more, but I have to get off the computer.
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Water Dumple
SMKW God of the Wars
Expert Debater
Whatever do you mean, Commander Pierce?! Anglo military intelligence is second to none! Fire!
Posts: 4,123
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Post by Water Dumple on Jun 22, 2008 22:10:45 GMT -5
My battle against Yoshisoul at the beginning of the last version (You know, Chain Chomps vs. Loaded Shells) had a lot of officer influence. In fact, I remember that he used one of his to mimic Kolorado and tell my troops to break down the war machines just about to enter the battlefield, leaving me with about two-thirds/half of the war machines that I was supposed to have. If that's not serious officer action, I don't know what is.
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Post by vidguysteve on Jun 22, 2008 22:13:53 GMT -5
1) That hurts! We didn't hoarde! The others just ate up our merchandise! And cash doesn't make as much of a difference in the Wars. And Grit doesn't give them "good accuracy"; they way you describe it, you say:
So, just by having Grit as your General, your troops "basically never miss", and "Indirect/long-ranged combat units gain a large range boost, so incoming enemy troops can be hit by Rockets and whatnot a very long way away from the base." But, I am not going to say that it's all good because you made the liberty of making a negative effect in the form of close-range WM weakness. But, what's to stop you from getting someone like Jesse who excells at close range and having her benefits cancel-out the negative effects? 2) Patsy is weak and can't fight. How is someone who has no fighting capability any different from how you describe your CO's fighting ability?
Now, don't get me wrong, I don't think that these effects should never be implemented. hachi had CO Powers for his COs, but they were the actual Powers, not just the effects. My problem isn't that you have these powers; it's that you simply come bundled with them, just for gaining troops and getting Officers. Do a 30 Day Project or something for the effects, and I'd be fine with it.
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Water Dumple
SMKW God of the Wars
Expert Debater
Whatever do you mean, Commander Pierce?! Anglo military intelligence is second to none! Fire!
Posts: 4,123
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Post by Water Dumple on Jun 22, 2008 22:25:43 GMT -5
1) That hurts! We didn't hoarde! The others just ate up our merchandise! And cash doesn't make as much of a difference in the Wars. And Grit doesn't give them "good accuracy"; they way you describe it, you say: So, just by having Grit as your General, your troops "basically never miss", and "Indirect/long-ranged combat units gain a large range boost, so incoming enemy troops can be hit by Rockets and whatnot a very long way away from the base." But, I am not going to say that it's all good because you made the liberty of making a negative effect in the form of close-range WM weakness. Read those two carefully--The second one only affects War Machines, so that they have more range, but the first one only affects troops so that they're more accurate. War Machines are normal in terms of accuracy, troops are normal in terms of range, and as I said before, if somebody is shooting at you with a machine gun, you won't last long because all they have to do is spray bullets in an arc and you can't really dodge. Having more accuracy pretty much only affects Mechs. And for the range bonus to take affect, I'd also have to know the foes are there; if they're a day's march away and I have no idea where they are, using OOG knowledge to fire off randomly in their direction won't do me any good and is illegal anyway. Me being fair, that's what. That's kind of like saying, "If I can make up my own troops, why not just make invincible ones?" You'll recall that she's only good with ground vehicles; that means that her war machine ability would simply give ground vehicles, say, more firepower and armor, but aircraft and boats would suck. What I'm going to do is allot a factory/airfield/port to each CO. After that, without a switching project, it can only work for that CO. So if I give Grit a factory but have Max as another CO, I can't just give Max the direct combat units and Grit the indirects to get the benefit out of everything. 'Cause Patsy is a representitive, not an actual officer. Remember that there's a fifteen-officer limit total, and if one dies, you can't push the number back up to fifteen. I've never even used more than ten before, and the only reason I'm using more officers in this SMKW version is because new rules kind of make it an advantage to get more officers, even if they're generic. Well, CO Powers are one-shot deals, not something constant. They also generally affect stuff in a much more major way than my stuff, or so it seems. I originally planned to give my COs powers as well, but I guess I'll leave those out to make it fair.
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Post by vidguysteve on Jun 22, 2008 22:29:16 GMT -5
Again, you can do as you please with you COs if you want them to have effects, and I'll have no objections so long as you give a project of fair length to give each CO their ability.
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Post by vidguysteve on Jun 22, 2008 22:33:39 GMT -5
You're basing the argument on false evidence. You claim that "Officers never fight." Wrong. Final Battle: The Iron Club vs. Ancient Ones was 90% officer combat, and I don't just mean heroes. Big Poppa, Game Over, Chompy, Moustafa.. all fighting in the front lines. Kidnapping of Orange Yoshi and Raphette- Every Officer of layze's was out there on the Front lines at some point. Destrction of Beanbean Castle- Again, officers doing most of the fighting on layze's side. I'd find more, but I have to get off the computer. I didn't say "never" if you read carefully, you would see I said "Officers rarely fight on the front lines."
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Water Dumple
SMKW God of the Wars
Expert Debater
Whatever do you mean, Commander Pierce?! Anglo military intelligence is second to none! Fire!
Posts: 4,123
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Post by Water Dumple on Jun 22, 2008 22:38:01 GMT -5
Again, you can do as you please with you COs if you want them to have effects, and I'll have no objections so long as you give a project of fair length to give each CO their ability. That hardly refutes all of this... -Quote-
Read those two carefully--The second one only affects War Machines, so that they have more range, but the first one only affects troops so that they're more accurate. War Machines are normal in terms of accuracy, troops are normal in terms of range, and as I said before, if somebody is shooting at you with a machine gun, you won't last long because all they have to do is spray bullets in an arc and you can't really dodge. Having more accuracy pretty much only affects Mechs. And for the range bonus to take affect, I'd also have to know the foes are there; if they're a day's march away and I have no idea where they are, using OOG knowledge to fire off randomly in their direction won't do me any good and is illegal anyway.
-Quote-
Me being fair, that's what. That's kind of like saying, "If I can make up my own troops, why not just make invincible ones?" You'll recall that she's only good with ground vehicles; that means that her war machine ability would simply give ground vehicles, say, more firepower and armor, but aircraft and boats would suck. What I'm going to do is allot a factory/airfield/port to each CO. After that, without a switching project, it can only work for that CO. So if I give Grit a factory but have Max as another CO, I can't just give Max the direct combat units and Grit the indirects to get the benefit out of everything.
-Quote-
'Cause Patsy is a representitive, not an actual officer. Remember that there's a fifteen-officer limit total, and if one dies, you can't push the number back up to fifteen. I've never even used more than ten before, and the only reason I'm using more officers in this SMKW version is because new rules kind of make it an advantage to get more officers, even if they're generic.
-Quote-
Well, CO Powers are one-shot deals, not something constant. They also generally affect stuff in a much more major way than my stuff, or so it seems. I originally planned to give my COs powers as well, but I guess I'll leave those out to make it fair....But if you insist I'll do projects for these, but I might also do CO Powers since this kind of ruins the point of not using them.
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Post by vidguysteve on Jun 22, 2008 22:45:59 GMT -5
I'm not trying to refute/debate/argue/counter/retort at this point- I'm trying to settle on an agreement. A 30 Day project -maybe even less, based on what the effect is- is the maximum of what I'd ask for something like this. Not a big deal, right?
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Water Dumple
SMKW God of the Wars
Expert Debater
Whatever do you mean, Commander Pierce?! Anglo military intelligence is second to none! Fire!
Posts: 4,123
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Post by Water Dumple on Jun 22, 2008 22:48:18 GMT -5
Okay, I'll agree to that.
ABUNDANCE SMILES UPON THEE!
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Post by vidguysteve on Jun 22, 2008 22:52:30 GMT -5
Woo! Bout time too, seeing as I've been trying to get the "agreement" idea settled for the last hour now, but looking at it I don't think I was making nearly enough emphasis on the subject.
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Water Dumple
SMKW God of the Wars
Expert Debater
Whatever do you mean, Commander Pierce?! Anglo military intelligence is second to none! Fire!
Posts: 4,123
|
Post by Water Dumple on Jun 22, 2008 22:56:52 GMT -5
...Wow, we really did spend an hour on that. When I'm not crushed with homework it's easy to let time slip by.
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Post by vidguysteve on Jun 22, 2008 23:03:02 GMT -5
Mm. My dad says this whenever he realizes that he's been working until 2 in the morning,
"That damn box is some kind of time machine!"
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Makajawan
SMKW God of the Wars
The Fourth Forgoer
He's a Pirate
Posts: 5,285
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Post by Makajawan on Jun 23, 2008 10:55:04 GMT -5
You're basing the argument on false evidence. You claim that "Officers never fight." Wrong. Final Battle: The Iron Club vs. Ancient Ones was 90% officer combat, and I don't just mean heroes. Big Poppa, Game Over, Chompy, Moustafa.. all fighting in the front lines. Kidnapping of Orange Yoshi and Raphette- Every Officer of layze's was out there on the Front lines at some point. Destrction of Beanbean Castle- Again, officers doing most of the fighting on layze's side. I'd find more, but I have to get off the computer. I didn't say "never" if you read carefully, you would see I said "Officers rarely fight on the front lines." Not that it matters at this point, but being who I am, I have to point out that this is hard from rarely, especially since there were plenty more examples I didn't feel like digging up. Again, it doesn't matter, the problem is solved, but you have to admit this was a good point. While I'm thinking, Dumple's COs are also defenseless should they get captured. They can't pull a Red and kill twenty guards and then run away. Sorry about this, but I love debating.
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Post by layze on Jun 23, 2008 11:38:04 GMT -5
alright, what's a CO?
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Makajawan
SMKW God of the Wars
The Fourth Forgoer
He's a Pirate
Posts: 5,285
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Post by Makajawan on Jun 23, 2008 11:50:44 GMT -5
Commanding Officer.
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