Water Dumple
SMKW God of the Wars
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Whatever do you mean, Commander Pierce?! Anglo military intelligence is second to none! Fire!
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May 11, 2008 18:52:44 GMT -5
Post by Water Dumple on May 11, 2008 18:52:44 GMT -5
...Really love to reply to Makajawan's post in the SMKW 64 DS Rules topic, but I can't post in the Rules board. And I even revised 'em. >_>
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Makajawan
SMKW God of the Wars
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He's a Pirate
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May 11, 2008 18:54:41 GMT -5
Post by Makajawan on May 11, 2008 18:54:41 GMT -5
I'd...
...Really love to help, but I don't have those powers.
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Water Dumple
SMKW God of the Wars
Expert Debater
Whatever do you mean, Commander Pierce?! Anglo military intelligence is second to none! Fire!
Posts: 4,123
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I'd...
May 11, 2008 18:57:02 GMT -5
Post by Water Dumple on May 11, 2008 18:57:02 GMT -5
Well, whatevs. I'll reply to it here, then...
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Water Dumple
SMKW God of the Wars
Expert Debater
Whatever do you mean, Commander Pierce?! Anglo military intelligence is second to none! Fire!
Posts: 4,123
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I'd...
May 11, 2008 19:04:38 GMT -5
Post by Water Dumple on May 11, 2008 19:04:38 GMT -5
I think outlawing it is outright lame. Now, is this meaning that you need to do a project for "out of theme" troops, or that they're banned? I don't really think banning out of theme troops should be allowed. Sure, discouraged, looked down upon, and the like, but if I want to put Tatanga clones in my army, than I should be allowed.
Either/Or fallacy! It's just unwanted, that's all. You could have Lumas in a Koopa army, but it's a little...well, dumb to do so, I feel.
Also, one “Uber War Machine” is allowed every army, which is much more powerful and bigger than normal. This can range from a 50-day project to a 200-day project, but no longer.
Does that mean someone who makes a fifty day UWM cannot make any more, because he's already made his, or is it like last wars where you could have 200 total UWM's. That's still the same amount of uberness, and if it's going to be limited at one, there's little reason not to just make a 200 one.
Same amount of uberness; it's like Champions.
This sentence is rather extraneous- it really means what the one after it does.
Uh...okay?
Could we clarify that it is optional to make one/many of your officers a hero/champion? Furthermore, could we clarify that the officer(s) then is taken out of troop limits?
Okay, I'll edit that as soon as I can. An officer-hero is still in the officer count, so you could have the O/H and then fourteen others, assuming none had previously died.
It had been my interpretation that worklines cost no additional civilians; this was accounted for by the workline limit. So, yeah, I don't really understand the purpose of this rule, and really serves as a hindrance, not as a check.
Adding a workline is basically getting a whole new factory, for the amount of work it does. There has to be some penalty for that, or it'll turn into what the last version did.
May gain 75 troops a day, if troop cap has already been already reached.
I always thought troop cap meant the limit, as in, no more troops. Gaining troops beyond the limit takes the point out of a limit. If you look at the original text when Petey proposed the rule, it reads:
"May gain 300 troops a Day, If troop cap already reached. Then 9 Days of every 40 Days worth of projects."
Now, the "If" in the second part of the sentence is capitalized. Also note that the second sentence has "Then" at the beginning, which seems rather useless, unless it is meant to be in the same sentence as "If the troop cap already reached." This means that there are two possible interpretations of the sentence:
May gain 300 troops a day, if the troop cap has already reached. Also may gain 9 days off every 40 days worth of projects.
OR
May gain 300 additional troops a day. If the troop cap is already reached, then 9 days off every 40 days worth of projects.
I personally think it is the latter, as that makes more sense.
Well, we agreed to have it the way it is now...talk to vidguy or somebody about that. Maybe we should make it only 25 a day, to prevent things from going out of control.
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Makajawan
SMKW God of the Wars
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He's a Pirate
Posts: 5,285
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May 11, 2008 19:11:54 GMT -5
Post by Makajawan on May 11, 2008 19:11:54 GMT -5
Either/Or fallacy! It's just unwanted, that's all. You could have Lumas in a Koopa army, but it's a little...well, dumb to do so, I feel.
I'm confused then. Are you using the rules to discourage or disallow it. If it's the former, I feel that should be clarified.
Adding a workline is basically getting a whole new factory, for the amount of work it does. There has to be some penalty for that, or it'll turn into what the last version did.
There are only three worklines allowed per factory. This was established to do the same job the civilian thing does. Now, I find little reason to have both rules. Personally, I prefer the three per factory, but that's just a matter of preference.
Well, we agreed to have it the way it is now...talk to vidguy or somebody about that. Maybe we should make it only 25 a day, to prevent things from going out of control.
I recall it just being assumed, and then I said something, and it was ignored. Well, I'm not going to bug you about that, so I'm opening the question to anyone.
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Water Dumple
SMKW God of the Wars
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Whatever do you mean, Commander Pierce?! Anglo military intelligence is second to none! Fire!
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May 11, 2008 20:46:48 GMT -5
Post by Water Dumple on May 11, 2008 20:46:48 GMT -5
I'm confused then. Are you using the rules to discourage or disallow it. If it's the former, I feel that should be clarified.
Okay.
There are only three worklines allowed per factory. This was established to do the same job the civilian thing does. Now, I find little reason to have both rules. Personally, I prefer the three per factory, but that's just a matter of preference.
You can only have three worklines, and adding an extra one costs 50 civilians. I believe you misunderstood taht.
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Makajawan
SMKW God of the Wars
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He's a Pirate
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May 11, 2008 20:53:41 GMT -5
Post by Makajawan on May 11, 2008 20:53:41 GMT -5
No, I understand that. What I don't understand is- why? If you can only have three worklines, then you'll have to build another factory eventually. That will cost more civilians. If the worklines cost extra civilians and time, then the factory limit seems extraneous. Now, I did the math, and I find that adding the extra worklines are still beneficial even with the civilian thing, but I just feel that the restrictions are more extreme than they have to be. WM production would still be adequately limited without that rule.
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Water Dumple
SMKW God of the Wars
Expert Debater
Whatever do you mean, Commander Pierce?! Anglo military intelligence is second to none! Fire!
Posts: 4,123
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I'd...
May 11, 2008 20:59:36 GMT -5
Post by Water Dumple on May 11, 2008 20:59:36 GMT -5
No, I understand that. What I don't understand is- why? If you can only have three worklines, then you'll have to build another factory eventually. That will cost more civilians. If the worklines cost extra civilians and time, then the factory limit seems extraneous. Now, I did the math, and I find that adding the extra worklines are still beneficial even with the civilian thing, but I just feel that the restrictions are more extreme than they have to be. WM production would still be adequately limited without that rule. The fact is, we're trying to prevent war machines from getting out of hand like they did in the last game. We don't want people running around with hundreds of war machines, even if they're 15 or 20-day WMs. If you don't have to pay Civilians for the two extra worklines, it's basically getting three factories for the price of one; it's 333.3 Civilians per factory, not 1,000. The worklines are cheaper because they're just 15 days and 500 Civilians each, which makes them appealing, but not so much that they get out of hand. The factory limit will hardly prevent the WM problem if you can get more machines that easily.
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Makajawan
SMKW God of the Wars
The Fourth Forgoer
He's a Pirate
Posts: 5,285
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I'd...
May 12, 2008 17:12:48 GMT -5
Post by Makajawan on May 12, 2008 17:12:48 GMT -5
The factory limit will hardly prevent the WM problem if you can get more machines that easily. Alright, so let's say we have player A running all five project slots to build factories, because he is not playing by the civilian rule at all. Then, we have Player B, who is playing by the civilian rule, but not having worklines cost any. Just factories. Then, you have Player C, playing by full civilian rules. B will have more factories than C, but A will have more than both by an excessive margin. B will keep it under control; C is too strict.
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May 12, 2008 19:00:32 GMT -5
Post by vidguysteve on May 12, 2008 19:00:32 GMT -5
Just sayin', I don't like the thing that makes UWMs more like Champions. That really just doesn't seem right.
I think it should be like last Wars where anything that equals or exceeds 100 Days is automatically Uber, and you're limited to 200 Uber Days.
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Water Dumple
SMKW God of the Wars
Expert Debater
Whatever do you mean, Commander Pierce?! Anglo military intelligence is second to none! Fire!
Posts: 4,123
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I'd...
May 12, 2008 20:18:34 GMT -5
Post by Water Dumple on May 12, 2008 20:18:34 GMT -5
The factory limit will hardly prevent the WM problem if you can get more machines that easily. Alright, so let's say we have player A running all five project slots to build factories, because he is not playing by the civilian rule at all. Then, we have Player B, who is playing by the civilian rule, but not having worklines cost any. Just factories. Then, you have Player C, playing by full civilian rules. B will have more factories than C, but A will have more than both by an excessive margin. B will keep it under control; C is too strict. That's completely subjective; you're just arguing on a matter of opinion. I think A and B are both excessive.
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Makajawan
SMKW God of the Wars
The Fourth Forgoer
He's a Pirate
Posts: 5,285
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I'd...
May 12, 2008 21:08:27 GMT -5
Post by Makajawan on May 12, 2008 21:08:27 GMT -5
I think it should be like last Wars where anything that equals or exceeds 100 Days is automatically Uber, and you're limited to 200 Uber Days. That is what we mean, only the uber time is changed. We could switch it back though.
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