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Post by vidguysteve on Jun 1, 2008 15:06:46 GMT -5
Again, we the best method of proving something is by trying it.
We won't know for certain whether or not we should continue this until we implement it, just give it a test run. If it works out, then hooray! If not, we just scrap it and there's no real damage.
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Post by tinfoilman on Jun 1, 2008 15:23:22 GMT -5
Right now I'm on the fence.
Part of me agrees with WD: the mech will become the merc, except even more powerful but still impossible to kill.
But part of me agrees with everyone else: why don't we just try it? If things are a little unfair (which they will be...) we can tweak them; if its completely outrageous, then we'll just scrap them.
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Post by vidguysteve on Jun 1, 2008 15:25:06 GMT -5
Well, we'll leave the poll up for a few more days and let the numbers decide.
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Digiexpert
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Post by Digiexpert on Jun 1, 2008 15:26:08 GMT -5
You guys are forgetting one thing. You're assuming they'd build a mech. They could build anything from a Prometheus from MechAssault, to a Subspace Canon, to The Battleship Halberd, if they wanted to.
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Post by bulbmin on Jun 1, 2008 15:58:17 GMT -5
I might be one of these in the next wars.
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Post by rydon7 on Jun 1, 2008 16:25:51 GMT -5
But then your attackers wouldn't have the defense/protection they'd need to survive whatever this exemplary Mech has. Edit: And as much as the armies would have time to keep watch on the Mechs, they certainly wouldn't have the time to attack them. Neither would they if a Merc attacked. Niether would they for other armies or mercs.
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Water Dumple
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Post by Water Dumple on Jun 1, 2008 17:17:57 GMT -5
But then your attackers wouldn't have the defense/protection they'd need to survive whatever this exemplary Mech has. Edit: And as much as the armies would have time to keep watch on the Mechs, they certainly wouldn't have the time to attack them. Neither would they if a Merc attacked. Niether would they for other armies or mercs. Mercenaries: Aside from hero abilities, the mercenary is usually just a blunt power boost without anything wildly unpredictable. Mercenary vs. Mech means Hero+A small number of uber troops vs. Obscene Death Machine. Also, unless you had a ton of money, you wouldn't be able to keep sending a Mercenary around (Which would already be hurt from the first attack or two) to pester a single Mech. Armies: They are a constant threat that you can't always be protected from; that's how it always has been, and most likely always will. However, they tend to be a little more of standard firepower, not always creative doom-you-instantly techniques, which makes Mechs the anti-army. Another point I would make, as tin seems to be swaying, would be that if we tried so hard to eliminate/dampen/limit the crazy uber projects, it really doesn't make much sense to have a group that is a crazy uber project x 5.
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Post by vidguysteve on Jun 1, 2008 17:28:01 GMT -5
All these are valid points, and I do understand where you're coming from.
However, there were other proposed rules that we introduced to these wars that people were initially wary of; why not give this one a chance?
I assure you, and I'm sure that everyone agrees, if this doesn't work out, it'll just vanish.
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Water Dumple
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Whatever do you mean, Commander Pierce?! Anglo military intelligence is second to none! Fire!
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Post by Water Dumple on Jun 1, 2008 17:31:43 GMT -5
Hey, I can't stop you; but let's just say that these are my warnings, so you might encounter one or more of these problems if this goes through. We should probably put one or two limits on the Mech beforehand, as far as what it can do. How about no magic?
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Post by rydon7 on Jun 1, 2008 17:52:38 GMT -5
Neither would they if a Merc attacked. Niether would they for other armies or mercs. Mercenaries: Aside from hero abilities, the mercenary is usually just a blunt power boost without anything wildly unpredictable. Mercenary vs. Mech means Hero+A small number of uber troops vs. Obscene Death Machine. Also, unless you had a ton of money, you wouldn't be able to keep sending a Mercenary around (Which would already be hurt from the first attack or two) to pester a single Mech. Armies: They are a constant threat that you can't always be protected from; that's how it always has been, and most likely always will. However, they tend to be a little more of standard firepower, not always creative doom-you-instantly techniques, which makes Mechs the anti-army. Another point I would make, as tin seems to be swaying, would be that if we tried so hard to eliminate/dampen/limit the crazy uber projects, it really doesn't make much sense to have a group that is a crazy uber project x 5. So if you're a water army and you're attacked by the Green Thunder it's still different from having a balanced army attacked by a balanced UWM? What does that have to do with what I said? You can't always attack growing mercs, armies, or bandits. So what difference does it make if its another class?
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Digiexpert
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Post by Digiexpert on Jun 1, 2008 18:08:53 GMT -5
Neither would they if a Merc attacked. Niether would they for other armies or mercs. Mercenaries: Aside from hero abilities, the mercenary is usually just a blunt power boost without anything wildly unpredictable. Mercenary vs. Mech means Hero+A small number of uber troops vs. Obscene Death Machine. Also, unless you had a ton of money, you wouldn't be able to keep sending a Mercenary around (Which would already be hurt from the first attack or two) to pester a single Mech. Armies: They are a constant threat that you can't always be protected from; that's how it always has been, and most likely always will. However, they tend to be a little more of standard firepower, not always creative doom-you-instantly techniques, which makes Mechs the anti-army. Another point I would make, as tin seems to be swaying, would be that if we tried so hard to eliminate/dampen/limit the crazy uber projects, it really doesn't make much sense to have a group that is a crazy uber project x 5. I think I have a fix! Your main unit is about the strength of an Uber unit, maybe two. Your UWM is the only progect you can have, upgrades as well. They get one progect slot at a time, so one upgrade at a time. To get the UWM, you must either do a 200 day progect, or a 2 week quest, as usual. For the civilians award, they are granted hero status. Not Super Hero, just hero. Well, that was my two cents.
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Post by rydon7 on Jun 1, 2008 18:19:40 GMT -5
That would make them literally worthless.
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Makajawan
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Post by Makajawan on Jun 1, 2008 20:56:37 GMT -5
So far, the only valid point against the mech class is that the mech is gonna escape, and the army is going to be screwed.
Mercs already have the ability to escape with their lives 99% of the time, and so far we've yet to hit that 1%. Mechs would be just as likely to escape. Unfortunately, the UWM would have the power to completely murder an army, whereas a Merc could only tip the scales as an aid to an army or carry out a theft or assassination.
So, what we really have to do is dampen the destructive power of the mech class, and then everything should be able to function properly. Now, they would still be about mass destruction instead of precision, but it would be more like micro mass destruction.
I think that would be the best way to make this class fair without making them worthless.
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Post by vidguysteve on Jun 1, 2008 21:15:24 GMT -5
^ SMRT!
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Water Dumple
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Post by Water Dumple on Jun 1, 2008 21:22:29 GMT -5
Mercenaries: Aside from hero abilities, the mercenary is usually just a blunt power boost without anything wildly unpredictable. Mercenary vs. Mech means Hero+A small number of uber troops vs. Obscene Death Machine. Also, unless you had a ton of money, you wouldn't be able to keep sending a Mercenary around (Which would already be hurt from the first attack or two) to pester a single Mech. Armies: They are a constant threat that you can't always be protected from; that's how it always has been, and most likely always will. However, they tend to be a little more of standard firepower, not always creative doom-you-instantly techniques, which makes Mechs the anti-army. Another point I would make, as tin seems to be swaying, would be that if we tried so hard to eliminate/dampen/limit the crazy uber projects, it really doesn't make much sense to have a group that is a crazy uber project x 5. So if you're a water army and you're attacked by the Green Thunder it's still different from having a balanced army attacked by a balanced UWM? What does that have to do with what I said? You can't always attack growing mercs, armies, or bandits. So what difference does it make if its another class? Because Mechs are like the anti-army; at least, they can do heavy damage to them. It's like moving a Fighter into a 5-health Missile's range to shoot down an enemy Bomber in Advance Wars. (That made no sense...) Alright...it's like shooting a Submarine with a Cruiser while still being in range of a Rockets. There, that's better. Maybe. Also, Maka, why are so many other points not valid? You say it's not the Mechs themselves, but their current state. That's what I'm saying as well, so how are my points not valid? (I'd rather have no other class, but I know that next to nobody is going to accept that now.)
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